March 1

March 1, 1431 Fifth Session

On Thursday, March 1st we the said bishop repaired to the accustomed place in the castle of Rouen, where the said Jeanne appeared before us in the presence of the reverend fathers, lords and masters:

In their presence we summoned and required the said Jeanne to swear to speak the truth, the simple and absolute truth on what she was asked.

She answered that she was ready to swear to answer truly everything she knew, concerning the trial, as she said before. She said she knows many things which do not concern the trial, and there is no need to tell them.

Then she said: “Everything I truly know concerning the trial I will gladly tell.”

Summoned and required as before, to swear,

She answered: “What I can answer truly, I will willingly tell concerning the trial.”

And she took the oath in this manner, with her hands on the holy gospels.

Then she said: “Of what I know concerning the trial I will willingly tell the truth, and will tell altogether as much as if I were before the Pope of Rome.”

Asked what she said concerning our lord the Pope and whom she believed to be the true Pope,

She answered by asking if there were two of them.

Asked if she had not had letters from the count d’Armagnac, to ask which of the three sovereign pontiffs he should obey,

She answered that the said count did write a certain letter to this effect, to which she replied, amongst other things, that she would give him an answer when she was in Paris, or anywhere where she was at rest. And she was going to mount her horse when she gave this answer.

At this juncture we had read in court a copy of the letters from the count and from Jeanne; and she was examined to see whether this was a copy of her actual reply.

She answered that she thought she had made this reply in part, but not all of it.

Asked if she had professed to know, by the counsel of the King of Kings, what the count should hold in this matter,

She answered she knew nothing about it.

Asked if she entertained any doubt concerning whom the count should obey,

She answered that she did not know how to instruct him to obey, since the count asked whom God wanted him to obey. But as for herself, Jeanne thought we should obey our Holy Father the Pope at Rome.

She added that she said other things to the count’s messenger which are not in the copy of the letter; and if the messenger had not gone off at once he would have been thrown into the water, but not through her. She said that to the count’s inquiry concerning whom God wished him to obey, She answered that she did not know, but sent him several messages not put into writing. And as for herself, she believed in Our Holy Father the Pope at Rome.

Asked why she had written that she would give an answer at some other time, since she believed in the Pope at Rome,

She answered that it had reference to another matter than the three sovereign pontiffs.

Asked if she had said that she would have counsel on the question of the three sovereign pontiffs,

She answered that she had never written or caused to be written anything concerning the three sovereign pontiffs. This, she swore by her oath, she had never written or caused to be written.

Asked if she was in the habit of putting in her letters the names of Jhesus Maria with a cross,

She answered in some she did, and in some she did not; and sometimes she put a cross to warn some one of her party not to do as her letters said. The tenor of the letters which the count and Jeanne wrote to one another is included below among the articles of the prosecutor.

And then she was read the letters that she addressed to our lord the King, to the Duke of Bedford, and to others.

The tenor of which letters is to be found below in the articles of the prosecutor.

And then she was asked if she recognized these letters;

She answered yes, excepting three words; to wit where it was written Surrender to the Maid, it should read Surrender to the king; then there was chieftain of war and thirdly body for body, which were not in the letters she sent. She added that none of the lords ever dictated these letters, but she herself dictated them before they were sent; though they were indeed shown to certain of her party. She said that before seven years are past the English will lose a greater stake than they did at Orleans, for they will lose everything in France. She adds that the said English will suffer greater loss than ever they did in France; and it will be a great victory which God will send the French.

Asked how she knew this,

She answered: “I know by a revelation made to me, and within seven years it will happen and I am much vexed that it should be so long postponed.” She said also that she knew it by revelation as well as she knew we were at that moment before her.

Asked when it will happen,

She said she knew neither the day nor the hour.

Asked in what year it will happen,

She answered: “You will not learn that: nevertheless I heartily wish it might be before St. John’s Day.”

Asked whether she said it would happen before Martinmas in winter,

She answered that she had said that before Martinmas in winter many things would be seen; and it might be that the English would be overthrown.

Asked what she told John Grey, her guard, about Martinmas,

She answered: “I have told you.” Asked through whom she knew that this would come to pass,

She answered that she knew through St. Catherine and St. Margaret. Asked if St. Gabriel was with St. Michael when he came to her,

She answered she did not remember.

Asked if since the last Tuesday she had not spoken with St. Catherine and St. Margaret,

She answered yes, but she does not know at what time.

Asked on what day,

She answered, yesterday and to-day; “there is no day but I hear them.”

Asked if she always saw them in the same dress,

She answered she always sees them in the same form; and their heads are richly crowned. Of their other clothing she does not speak: of their robes she knows nothing.

Asked how she knew whether her apparition was man or woman,

She answered she knew for certain, she recognized them by their voices, and they revealed themselves to her; nor did she know anything but by revelation and God’s command.

Asked what part of them she saw,

She answered the face.

Asked if the saints which appeared to her had hair,

She answered: “It is well to know that they have.”

Asked if there were anything between their crowns and their hair,

She answered no.

Asked if their hair were long and hung down,

She answered: “I do not know.” She added that she did not know whether they appeared to have arms or other members. She saw they spoke very well and beautifully; and she understood them very well.

Asked how they spoke if they had no other members,

She answered: “I leave that to God.” She said the voice was gentle, soft and low, and spoke in French.

Asked if St. Margaret spoke in the English tongue,

She answered: “Why should she speak English when she is not on the English side?”

Asked if on the crowned heads there were not rings of gold or other substance,

She answered: “I do not know.”

Asked if she herself did not have some rings,

She replied to us, bishop: “You have one of mine; give it back to me.” She said the Burgundians have another ring; and she asked us, if we had her ring, to show it to her.

Asked who gave her the ring which the Burgundians had,

She answered her father or her mother; and she thought the names Jhesus Maria were written thereon; she did not know who had them written; she did not think there was any stone in it; and she was given the ring at Domrémy. She said that her brother gave her the other ring which we had and she charged us to give it to the Church. She said she never cured any one with any of her rings.

Asked if St. Catherine and St. Margaret spoke to her under the aforementioned tree

She answered: “I do not know.”

Asked if the saints spoke to her at the fountain near the tree,

She answered yes, she heard them there, but what they said to her there she did not know.

Asked what the saints promised her, there or elsewhere,

She answered that they made no promises to her, except by God’s leave.

Asked what promises they made,

She answered: “That is not in your case at all.” And amongst other things, they told how the king would be reëstablished in his kingdom, whether his enemies wished it or not. She said also that they promised the said Jeanne to bring her to Paradise, and she had asked it of them. Asked if she had received any other promise,

She answered she had, but she will not tell, since it does not concern the trial. And she said that in three months she will reveal the other promise.

Asked if the voices had told her that within three months she would be delivered from prison,

She answered: “That is not in your case; however, I do not know when I shall be delivered.” And she said that those who wish to get her out of the world might well precede her.

Asked if her counsel had not told her that she would be delivered out of the present prison,

She answered: “Ask me in three months’ time; then I will tell you.” She added: “Ask the assessors, on their oath, if that concerns my trial.”

Asked afterwards, when the assessors had deliberated, and unanimously concurred that it did,

She said: “I have already told you that you cannot know all. One day I must be delivered. But I want leave if I am to tell you; that is why I ask for a delay.”

Asked if the voices forbade her to speak the truth,

She answered: “Do you want me to tell you what is the sole concern of the king of France? There are many things that are not in the trial.”

She added that she knows for certain her king will regain the kingdom of France, as certainly as she knows that we are seated before her in judgment, and but for her revelation, which daily comforts her, she would be dead.

Asked what she had done with her mandrake,

She answered that she has no mandrake, and never did have; but has heard that near her village there was one, though she has never seen it. She said also she had heard it called a dangerous and evil thing to keep; nor does she know its use.

Asked where the mandrake grows, of which she has heard speak,

She said in the earth, near the tree, but she does not know the spot. She said that over the mandrake, she has heard, a hazel grows.

Asked what she has heard about the mandrake,

She answered that she has heard it attracts money, but she does not believe it. And the voices never told her anything about this.

Asked in what form St. Michael appeared,

She answered that she did not see his crown, and she knows nothing of his apparel.

Asked if he was naked,

She answered: “Do you think God has not wherewithal to clothe him?”

Asked if he had any hair,

She answered: “Why should it be cut off?” She added that she had not seen St. Michael since she left the castle Crotoy, and she does not often see him, or know, she added, whether he has any hair.

Asked whether he had his scales,

She answered: “I do not know.” She said she was filled with great joy when she saw him; and she felt, when she saw him, that she was not in mortal sin. She said St. Catherine and St. Margaret gladly heard her in confession, from time to time, and each in turn. She said that if she was in mortal sin she was not aware of it.

Asked if, when she made her confession, she felt as if in mortal sin,

She answered she did not know whether she was in mortal sin, but she believed she had not committed such deeds. “Please God, she said, I never was in such sin, and if it please Him, I never shall commit or have committed such deeds as burden my soul.”

Asked what sign she gave her king that she came from God,

She answered: I have always told you that you will not drag this from my lips. Go and ask him.”

Asked if she had sworn not to reveal what was asked concerning the trial,

She answered: I have already said that I will not tell you what concerns or touches our king; and what touches our king, I shall not tell you.”

Asked if she did not know the sign she gave the king,

She answered: “You will not learn from me.” And as she was told it concerned the trial,

She answered: “What I have promised to keep secret I shall not tell you.” And added: I promised and I could not tell you without perjury.”

Asked to whom she made this promise,

She answered that it was to St. Catherine and St. Margaret, it was shown to the king. She promised it without their asking, and did so at her own desire, for too many people might have questioned her had she not so promised to the saints.

Asked if any one else was with them when she showed the sign to her king,

She answered that she thought there was not, although many people were fairly near.

Asked if she saw the crown on her king’s head when she showed him the sign,

She answered: “I cannot tell you without perjury.”

Asked whether her king had a crown when he was at Reims,

She answered that she thought the king took with pleasure the crown he found at Reims, but a much richer one was later brought. And he did that to hasten his coronation, at the request of the people of Reims to avoid the burden of the men-at-arms. If he had waited he would have had a crown a thousand times richer.

Asked if she saw this richer crown,

She answered: “I cannot tell you without committing perjury. And if I have not myself seen it, I have heard that it is so rich and precious.”

At this point we stayed the proceedings for the day; and assigned Saturday at eight o’clock in the morning for their continuation, requiring those present to assemble together in the same place at the said hour and day.

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