February 24th. Third Session
On the following Saturday, February 24th, we the said bishop repaired to the same room in the castle of Rouen where Jeanne appeared in judgment before us in the presence on many reverend fathers, doctors and masters, namely:
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- , doctor of sacred theology;
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- , bachelors of sacred theology;
- the abbot of St. Ouen, of St. Georges, and of Préaux;
- the priors of St. Lô and of Sigy; also
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We first of all required the aforementioned Jeanne to speak the simple and absolute truth on the questions put to her, and to make no reservation to her oath; and we thrice admonished her to do this.
The said Jeanne answered: “Give me Leave to speak” and then said: “By my faith, you could ask me things such as I would not answer.” She said also: “Perhaps I shall not answer you truly in many things that you ask me, concerning the revelations; for perhaps you would constrain me to tell things I have sworn not to utter, and so I should be perjured, and you would not want that.” And she added, “I tell you, take good heed of what you say, that you are my judge, for you assume a great responsibility, and overburden me.” She said also that she thought it should be enough to have twice taken the oath.
Moreover, asked if she would swear, simply and absolutely,
She answered: “You may well do without it! I have sworn enough, twice”; adding that all the clergy of Rouen and Paris could not condemn her, but by law. She said that of her coming to France she would willingly speak the truth, but not the whole truth; and a week would not be enough for that.
But we, the aforementioned bishop, told her to take the advice of the assessors, whether or not she should swear.
To that she replied that of her coming she would willingly speak the truth, and not otherwise; and that we must not speak of it to her any more.
We said that she lay herself open to suspicion if she would not swear to speak the truth.
She replied in the same way as before.
Again we required her to swear, precisely and absolutely.
Then She answered that she would willingly say what she knew, but not all. She said also that she came from God, and that there is nothing for her to do here, and asked to be sent back to God, from whom she came.
Required and admonished to swear, under pain of being charged with what was imputed to her,
She answered: “Continue.”
A last time we required her to swear, and urgently admonished her to speak the truth in matters concerning the trial, telling her she exposed herself to great danger by her refusal.
Then She answered: “I am ready to swear to speak the truth of what I know concerning the trial.” And in this manner she took the oath.
Then, at our order, she was questioned by the distinguished doctor above-mentioned, who first asked her when she had last taken food and drink.
She answered that since yesterday noon she had not taken either.
Asked when she had heard the voice come to her,
She answered: “I heard it yesterday and to-day.”
Asked at what hour yesterday she had heard this voice,
She answered that she had heard it three times: once in the morning, once at vespers, and once when the Ave Maria was rung in the evening. And often she heard it more frequently than she said.
Asked what she was doing yesterday morning when the voice came to her,
She said she was sleeping and the Voice awakened her.
Asked if the voice woke her by touching her on the arm,
She answered that it was without touching her.
Asked if the voice was actually in the room,
She said she did not know, but it was in the castle.
Asked if she did not thank it and kneel down,
She answered that she thanked it, but she was sitting on the bed, and she put her hands together; and this was after she asked counsel of it. Whereupon the voice told her to answer boldly.
Asked what the voice had said when she was awakened,
She answered that she asked the voice to counsel her in her replies, telling the voice to beseech therein the counsel of Our Lord. And the voice told her to answer boldly and God would comfort her.
Asked if it had not spoken certain words to her before she questioned it,
She replied that the voice spoke certain words, but she did not understand them all. However, when she awakened from her sleep, the voice told her to answer boldly.
Then she said to us, the aforementioned bishop:
You say that you are my judge; take good heed of what you do, because, in truth, I am sent by God, and you put yourself in great peril,” in French ‘en grant dangier.’
Asked if the voice sometimes varied in its counsel,
She answered that she had never found it utter two contrary opinions. She said also that that night she had heard it tell her to answer boldly.
Asked whether the voice had forbidden her to answer everything she was asked,
She said: I will not answer you that. I have revelations concerning the king which I shall not tell you.
Asked if the voice had forbidden her to tell of the revelations,
She answered: “I have not been advised upon that. Give me a fortnight and I will answer you.” And as she had again asked for a delay in her reply, she said: “If the voice forbade me, what would you say?”
Asked again if that had been forbidden her {by the voice},
She replied: “Believe me, it was not men who forbade me.” She said that she would not answer that day; and that she does not know if she ought to reply, or not, until it has been revealed to her. She said she firmly believes, as firmly as she believes in the Christian faith and that the Lord redeemed us from the pains of hell, that this voice comes from God, and by His command.
Asked whether this voice, which she says appears to her, comes as an angel, or directly from God, or whether it is the voice of one of the saints,
She answered: “This voice comes from God; I believe I do not tell you everything about it; and I am more afraid of failing the voices by saying what is displeasing to them, than of answering you. For this question, I beseech you to grant me a delay.”
Asked if she believes it displeasing to God to speak the truth,
She answered: “My voices told me to say certain things to the king, and not to you.” She saw that that night the voice told her many things for the good of the king, which she wished he might know forthwith, even if she had to go without wine till Easter! For, as she said, he would eat the more happily for it.
Asked if she could not so influence the voice that it would obey her and take news to her king:
She answered she did not know whether the voice would obey her, unless it were God’s will, and God consented thereto. “And if it please God,” she said, “He will be able to send revelations to the king; and with this I shall be well pleased.”
Asked why this voice no longer speaks with the king, as it did when Jeanne was in his presence,
She answered that she did not know, if it were not the will of God. And she added that but for the will of God she could do nothing.
Asked if her counsel revealed to her that she should escape from prison,
She answered: “Must I tell you that?”
Asked whether that night the voice had not counseled and advised her upon what she should reply,
She said that if the voice revealed such things she did not understand them.
Asked whether, on the two last days that she heard the voices, she had seen a light,
She answered that the light comes in the name of the voice.
Asked if she saw anything else with the voices,
She answered: “I will not tell you everything, I have not leave, nor does my oath touch on that. This voice is good and worthy; and I am not bound to answer you.” She asked that the points on which she did not straightway answer should be given her in writing.
Asked whether the voice, of which she asked counsel, had sight and eyes,
She answered: “You will not learn that yet”; and said that there was a saying among little children, “Men are sometimes hanged for telling the truth.”
Asked if she knows she is in God’s grace,
She answered: “If I am not, may God put me there; and if I am, may God so keep me. I should be the saddest creature in the world if I knew I were not in His grace.” She added, if she were in a state of sin, she did not think that the voice would come to her; and she wished every one could hear the voice as well as she did. She thought she was about thirteen when the voice came to her for the first time.
Asked whether in her youth she had played in the fields with the other children,
She answered that she certainly went sometimes, but she did not know at what age.
Asked if the people of Domrémy sided with the Burgundians or the other party,
She answered that she only knew one Burgundian; and she would have been quite willing for him to have his head cut off, that is if it had pleased God.
Asked if at Maxey the people were Burgundians or enemies of the Burgundians,
She answered they were Burgundians.
Asked if the voice told her in her youth to hate the Burgundians,
She answered that since she had known that the voices were for the king of France, she did not like the Burgundians.
She said the Burgundians will have war unless they do as they ought; she knows it from her voice.
Asked if it was revealed to her in her early years that the English should come to France,
She answered that the English were already in France when the voices began to come to her.
Asked if she was ever with the children who fought for her party,
She answered no, as far as she remembered; but she sometimes saw certain children from Domrémy, who had fought against those from Maxey, returning wounded and bleeding.
Asked whether in her youth she had any great intention of defeating the Burgundians,
She answered that she had a great desire and will for her king to have his kingdom.
Asked if she had wanted to be a man when it was necessary for her to come to France,
She said she had answered elsewhere.
Asked if she took the animals to the fields,
She said that she had answered elsewhere; and that since she had grown up, and had reached understanding, she did not generally look after the beasts, but helped to take them to the meadows and to a castle called the Island, for fear of the soldiers; but she does not recall whether or not she tended them in her youth.
Then she was questioned about a certain tree growing near her village.
To which She answered that, fairly near Domrémy, there was a certain tree called the Ladies’ Tree, and others called it the Fairies’ Tree; and near by is a fountain. And she has heard that people sick of the fever drink of this fountain and seek its water to restore their health; that, she has seen herself; but she does not know whether they are cured or not.
She said she has heard that the sick, when they can rise, go to the tree and walk about it. It is a big tree, a beech, from which they get the fair May, in French le beau may; and it belongs, it is said, to Pierre de Bourlemont, knight.
She said sometimes she would go playing with the other young girls, making garlands for Our Lady of Domrémy there; and often she had heard the old folk say (not those of her family) that the fairies frequented it. And she heard a certain Jeanne, the wife of mayor Aubery of Domrémy, her godmother, say that she had seen the fairies; but she herself doesn’t know whether it is true or not. As far as she knew, she said, she never saw the fairies at the tree.
Asked if she saw them elsewhere,
She does not know at all. She had seen the young girls putting garlands on the branches of the tree, and she herself sometimes hung them there with the other girls; sometimes they took them away, and sometimes they left them there.
She said that since she learned that she must come to France, she had taken as little part as possible in games or dancing; and did not know whether she had danced near the tree since she had grown to understanding. Although on occasions she may well have danced there with the children, she more often sang than danced. There is also a wood, called the oak-wood, in French le Bois-chesnu, which can be seen from her father’s door; not more than half a league away.
She does not know, nor has she ever heard, that the fairies repair there; but she has heard from her brother that in the country around it is said she received her message at the tree; but she says she did not, and she told him quite the contrary. Further, she says, when she came to the king, several people asked her if there were not in her part of the country a wood called the oak-wood; for there was a prophecy which said that out of this wood would come a maid who should work miracles; but Jeanne said that she put no faith in that.
Asked if she wanted a woman’s dress,
She answered: “Give me one. I will take it and go: otherwise I will not have it, and am content with this, since it pleases God that I wear it.”
Whereupon we put an end to all interrogation for this day, and assigned for the next session the following Tuesday, so that at the same hour and in the same place the whole convocation should assemble and proceed to the subsequent interrogations.
February 27th. Fourth Session
On Tuesday, February 27th, we repaired as on the previous days to the room in the castle of Rouen where the tribunal had been hitherto sitting: there were also present master
- Gilles, abbot of Ste. Trinité de Fécamp
- Pierre, prior of Longueville;
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- the abbot of Préaux
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In their presence we first required the said Jeanne to take an oath to speak the truth on whatever concerned the trial.
To which she replied that she would willingly swear to answer truly everything that concerned her trial, but not everything she knew.
Then we required her to swear to answer truthfully everything she should be asked.
She replied as before, saying: “You ought to be satisfied, for I have sworn enough.”
Then at our instruction, master aforementioned, began to examine her.
And first he asked her how she had been in health since the preceding Saturday.
She answered: “You see well enough how. I have been as well as possible.”
Asked if she would fast every day during this Lent,
She answered by this question: “Is that in your case?” And as she was answered that it was, she said: “Yes, truly. I have fasted the whole of Lent.”
Asked whether since Saturday she had heard her voice
She answered: “Yes, truly, many times.”
Asked if on Saturday she had heard it in this hall, where she was being examined,
She answered: “That is not in your case.” And then she said she had heard it.
Asked what the voice had said on Saturday,
She answered: “I did not altogether understand it, I understood nothing I could repeat to you, until I went back to my room.”
Asked what the voice said to her in her room, when she went back
She answered: “It told me to answer you boldly.” And she said she asked counsel from her voice on the questions we should ask her. She said further that she will gladly tell whatever she has Our Lord’s permission to reveal; but concerning the revelations about the king of France, she will not tell without permission from her voice.
Asked if the voice forbade her to tell everything,
She answered she did not quite understand that.
Asked what the voice said to her on the last occasion,
She said she asked counsel of it upon certain points of our interrogation.
Asked if the voice had given her counsel upon these points,
She answered that on some she had advice, and on others we might question her and she would not reply without leave. And if she replied without permission, perhaps she would not have the voices for warrant, in French “en garant”; when she had leave from Our Lord she would not be afraid to speak, for she would have a good warrant.
Asked whether the voice which spoke to her was that of an angel, or of a saint, male or female, or straight from God,
She answered that the voice was the voice of St. Catherine and of St. Margaret. And their heads were crowned in a rich and precious fashion with beautiful crowns. “And to tell this,” she said, “I have God’s permission. If you doubt it, send to Poitiers where I was examined before.”
Asked how she knew they were these two saints, and how she knew one from the other,
She answered she knew well who they were, and easily distinguished one from the other.
Asked how she knew one from the other,
She answered she knew them by the greeting they gave her. She said further that a good seven years have passed since they undertook to guide her. She said also she knows the saints because they tell her their names.
Asked if the said saints are dressed in the same cloth,
She answered “I will tell you no more now; I have not leave to reveal it. If you do not believe me, send to Poitiers!” She said also that there were some revelations made directly to the king of France, and not to those who question her.
Asked if the saints are the same age,
She answered that she had not leave to say.
Asked if the saints spoke at the same time, or one after another,
She answered: “I have not leave to tell you; nevertheless I have always had counsel from both.”
Asked which one appeared first,
She answered: “I did not recognize them immediately; I knew well enough once, but I have forgotten; if I had leave I would gladly tell you. It is written down in the register at Poitiers.” She added that she had received comfort from .
Asked which of the apparitions came to her first,
She answered that came first.
Asked whether it was a long time ago that she first heard the voice of St. Michael,
She answered: “I do not speak of St. Michael’s voice, but of his great comfort.”
Asked which was the first voice which came to her when she was about thirteen,
She answered that it was St. Michael whom she saw before her eyes; and he was not alone, but accompanied by many angels from heaven. She said also that she came into France only by the instruction of God.
Asked if she saw St. Michael and these angels corporeally and in reality,
She answered: “I saw them with my bodily eyes as well as I see you; and when they left me, I wept; and I fain would have had them take me with them too.”
Asked in what form St. Michael appeared,
She answered “There is as yet no reply to that, for I have not had leave to answer.”
Asked what St. Michael said to her the first time,
She answered: “You will get no further reply to-day.” She said the voices told her to answer boldly. She said she had indeed once told her king everything that had been revealed to her, since it concerned him. She said, however, that she had not yet leave to reveal what St. Michael said. She added that she wished her examiner had a copy of the book at Poitiers, provided that God desired it.
Asked if the voices told her not to tell her revelations without their permission,
She answered: “I will not answer you further about that; and what I have permission to, that I will gladly answer. If the voices forbade me, I did not understand.”
Asked what sign she gives that this revelation comes from God, and that it is St. Catherine and St. Margaret who speak to her,
She answered: “I have told you often enough that it is St. Catherine and St. Margaret; believe me if you will.”
Asked if it is forbidden for her to tell,
She answered: “I have not quite understood whether that is permitted or not.”
Asked how she can distinguish such points as she will answer, and such as she will not,
She answered that on some points she had asked permission, and on some points she had received it. Furthermore she said she would rather be torn asunder by horses than have come to France without God’s leave.
Asked if God ordered her to wear a man’s dress,
She answered that the dress is a small, nay, the least thing. Nor did she put on man’s dress by the advice of any man whatsoever; she did not put it on, nor did she do aught, but by the command of God and the angels.
Asked whether it seemed to her that this command to assume male attire was lawful,
She answered: “Everything I have done is at God’s command; and if He had ordered me to assume a different habit, I should have done it, because it would have been His command.”
Asked if she did it at the order of Robert de Baudricourt
She said no.
Asked if she thought she had done well to take man’s dress,
She answered that everything she did at God’s command she thought well done, and hoped for good warrant and succor in it.
Asked if, in this particular case, by taking man’s dress, she thought she had done well,
She answered that she had done nothing in the world but by God’s commands.
Asked whether, when she saw the voice coming to her, there was a light,
She answered that there was a great deal of light on all sides, as was most fitting. She added to the examiner that not all the light came to him alone!
Asked whether there was an angel over her king’s head, when she saw him for the first time,
She answered: “By Our Lady! if there was, I do not know and did not see it.”
Asked if there was a light,
She answered: “There were three hundred knights and fifty torches, without counting the spiritual light, and I seldom have revelations but there is a light.”
Asked how the king gave credence to her words,
She answered that he had good signs, and through the clergy.
Asked what revelations the king had,
She answered: “You will not learn them from me this year.” She said that for three weeks she was examined by the clergy, at Chinon and Poitiers; and her king had a sign touching of her mission before he believed in her. The clergy of her party held that there was nothing but good in her mission.
Asked if she had been to Ste. Catherine de Fierbois,
She answered yes; and there she heard Masses three times on the same day; and then went to Chinon. She said she sent letters to her king, to the effect that she was sending to find out if she should enter the town where her king was; and that she had journeyed a good hundred and fifty leagues to come to his aid, and that she knew many things to his advantage.
And she thought these letters said she would be able to recognize the king among all others. She said she had a sword which she took to the town of Vaucouleurs. She added that when she was at Tours or Chinon she sent for a sword which was in the church of Ste. Catherine de Fierbois, behind the altar; and immediately it was found there all rusted over.
Asked how she knew that this sword was there,
She answered that the sword was in the ground, rusted over, and upon it were five crosses; and she knew it was there through her voices, and she had never seen the man who fetched it. She wrote to the clergy of the place asking if it was their pleasure that she should have the sword, and they sent it to her. Nor was it buried deep behind the altar, but she believed she wrote saying it was behind.
She added that as soon as the sword was found the priests rubbed it, and the rust fell off at once without effort; a merchant, an armorer of Tours, fetched it.
The local priests gave her a scabbard, as did those of Tours also; they made two in all, one of crimson velvet, in French “de velous vermeil”, and the other of cloth of gold. She herself had another made of very strong leather. She added that when she was captured she had not this sword with her.
She said also that she carried it continually from the time she obtained it until her departure from St. Denis, after the assault on Paris.
Asked what blessing she said or asked over the sword,
She answered that she neither blessed it herself, nor had it blessed; she would not have known how to do it. She loved the sword, she said, since it had been found in the church of St. Catherine, whom she loved.
Asked if she had been to Coulange-la-Vineuse,
She answered she did not know.
Asked if she ever put her sword on the altar, and if she did so to bring it better fortune,
She answered no, as far as she knew.
Asked if she ever prayed for her sword to have better fortune,
She answered: “It is well to know that I could have wished my armor (in French “mon harnois”) to have good fortune.”
Asked if she had her sword when she was taken,
She answered no; but she had one which had been taken from a Burgundian.
Asked where this sword was, and in what town,
She answered that she offered a sword and armor at St. Denis, but not this sword. She said she had this sword at Lagny; and from Lagny to Compiègne she had worn the Burgundian’s sword, which was a good weapon for fighting, excellent for giving hard clouts and buffets (in French “de bonnes buffes et de bons torchons”). But she said that to say where she had lost it did not concern the case, and she would not answer now. She added that her brothers have her goods, her horses and swords, as far as she knows, and other things worth more than 12,000 crowns.
Asked whether, when she went to Orleans, she had a standard or banner, in French “estandart ou banière” and what color it was,
She answered she had a banner, with a field sown with lilies; the world was depicted on it, and two angels, one at each side; it was white, of white linen or boucassin, and on it were written, she thought, these names, Jhesus Maria; and it was fringed with silk.
Asked if these names Jhesus Maria were written above, or below, or at the side,
She answered, at the side, she believed.
Asked which she preferred, her standard or her sword,
She answered she much preferred her standard to her sword.
Asked who persuaded her to have this painting on her standard,
She answered: “I have told you often enough that I have done nothing but by God’s command.” She said also that she herself bore the standard, when attacking the enemy, so as not to kill any one; she never has killed any one, she said.
Asked what force her king gave her when he set her to work,
She answered that he gave her 10 or 12,000 men; and she went first to Orleans, to the fortress of Saint-Loup, and then to the fortress of the Bridge.
Asked to which fortress she ordered her men to retire,
She says she does not remember. She added that she was confident of raising the siege of Orleans, for it had been revealed to her, and she had told the king so before going there.
Asked whether, when the assault was to be made, she did not tell her men that she would receive arrows, crossbolts and stones hurled by catapults or cannons,
She answered no; there were a hundred wounded, or more. But she had indeed told her men not to fear and they would raise the siege. She said also that at the assault upon the fortress of the Bridge she was wounded in the neck by an arrow or crossbolt but she received great comfort from St. Margaret, and was better in a fortnight. But she did not on account of that give up her riding or work.
Asked if she knew beforehand that she would be wounded,
She answered that she did indeed, and she had told her king so; but that notwithstanding she would not give up her work. And it was revealed to her by the voices of the two saints, namely the blessed Catherine and Margaret. She added that she herself was the first to plant the ladder against the said fortress of the Bridge; and as she was raising the ladder she was wounded in the neck with the crossbolt, as she had said.
Asked why she had not concluded a treaty with the captain of Jargeau,
She answered that the lords of her party replied to the English that they would not get the delay of a fortnight which they asked for, but must go away, they and their horses, immediately. She added that for her own part, she told the people of Jargeau to retire if they wished, with their doublets or tunics, and their life safe; otherwise they would be taken by assault.
Asked if she had any conversation with her counsel, that is to say with her voices, to find out whether or not to grant the delay,
She answered she does not remember.
At this point the examination was postponed to a later date, and we fixed the following Thursday for the continuation of the inquiry and subsequent interrogations.